some info u might wanna know

An Essay By Micki // 11/18/2008

I want to discuss two things here. 1: "Virgin" Mary and 2: oh wait, it's about Mary-praying to Mary. First we'll talk about her being a virgin, or not. Some people might get their feathers ruffled but if they believe the Bible is true, they shouldn't get riled.
So here we go...Mary isn't a virgin! or should I say she didn't remain one? Yes, Mary was a virgin when she conceived Jesus because the Holy Ghost came over her. Mary went on to have other children, and if you don't wish to believe that she had kids with Joseph then think about them being married and never ever being intimate. Yeah...In Matthew it even says Joseph knew her not until she gave birth to Jesus. (Translation: "knew her not" slept with her intimately.) So there you so, she didn't remain a virgin like some people like to believe. She was just a virgin when she conceived Jesus, and during the pregnancy, but afterwards she didn't stay one.
Some people may even say Mary was without sin, but God does not say she's without sin. In Romans it says we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God-even Mary. Mary was like you and me. She was chosen because she had found favor with God.
Other people even pray to her. Worship her! God says not to have any other gods/idols before Him, yet by praying to her you are making her to be a god. Which is totally wrong!
By praying to Mary you are not even getting to God as there is only mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ. It says so in First Timothy if you don't believe me.
Even the wisemen worpshiped Jesus, not Mary. Mary and others recognized Him as God, and knew they were to pray/worship Him alone.

Comments

Some info YOU might want to know

Catholics don't pray to Mary, and they certainly don't worship her. Mary is like a Mother to them, and if you were in need of prayer wouldn't you ask your Mother to pray for you?

Anonymous | Sat, 11/22/2008

yes, i'd ask my mother to

yes, i'd ask my mother to pray for me, but i would not pray to her. the bible says there is only way to get to God thru Jesus and i believe that means even in prayer.

Anonymous | Sat, 11/22/2008

...

But Catholics don't pray to Mary; we ask her to pray for us. We love her because she carried the God made man in her womb and held him to her breast.
I say this with the utmost respect and honesty; please consider what I have said. :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?...Morons."
-Vizzini

Clare Marie | Sat, 11/22/2008

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"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -Bilbo Baggins [The Lord of the Rings]

yeah, um

well, i'm not entirely sure Mary can pray for us as in heaven are not we continueously praising God? so, that would mean Mary cannot pray for us. I think all our requests should go to God. But of course, we differ on this subject, and tho we may not agree, we should tolerate another's beliefs as we'd like the same returned. =)

**~~**
a creative mind never ceases for long in thinking.

Paula J | Sun, 11/23/2008

~All men were created equal, then some became Marines~
*Death smiles at everyone, Marines smile back*
gotta love the Marines!!

I believe that Mary and the

I believe that Mary and the saints CAN pray for us, for the Bible says:

"...the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and a gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones....Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel." [Revelation 5: 8; & 8: 3-4]

And:

"But you have approached Mount Zion, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, and the assembly and church of the firstborn who have been enrolled in heaven, and God the judge of all, and spirits of righteous ones who have been made perfect, and Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood which speaks better than that of Abel" [Heb. 12:22-24].

From these and other writings of the Bible, we believe that Mary and the saints can indeed pray for us in heaven, as well as offer worship to God.

You are right, that we should tolerate each other's beliefs. Thanks for being so understanding. :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?...Morons."
-Vizzini

Clare Marie | Sun, 11/23/2008

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -Bilbo Baggins [The Lord of the Rings]

Okay, yeah, I would ask my

Okay, yeah, I would ask my mother to pray for me, but I would ask her to pray to God. And I would pray to God--ASK GOD for his guidence. Why can't we just go streight to God? And why pray to the saints? What made them saints? When you pray (I'm asking because I'm not sure) do you say "Holy Mary, mother of God" or do you say something more like "Dear Lord ect."? What do you say when you ask the saints? But then, why ask anybody else to pray for you at all? Can't you pray by your self? I can understand asking people to pray for, because sometimes it's just for encouragement. But is that your reason? Am I asking to many questions? Oops, there's another one. Okay I'm sorry if this is just plain wrong of me to be questioning you, but if I shouldn't, you should.

"Sunny, bite the head off of that elf!" (Violet Baudelaire

The Brit | Sun, 11/23/2008

Oh no, I don't mind the

Oh no, I don't mind the questions. :)

I have to make this short...

We ask Mary and the saints to pray for us because it gives us comfort to know that somebody IS praying for us. Don't you feel that way? When you're worried about something or hurt or discouraged, doesn't it make you feel better to know somebody is praying for you?

Even Martin Luther has spoken in praise of Mary:

"She, the lady above heaven and earth, must . . . have a heart so humble that she might have no shame in washing the swaddling clothes or preparing a bath for St. John the Baptist, like a servant girl. What humility! It would surely have been more just to have arranged for her a golden coach, pulled by 4,000 horses, and to cry and proclaim as the carriage proceeded, 'Here passes the woman who is raised above the whole human race!' . . . She was not filled with pride by this praise . . . this immense praise: No woman is like unto thee! Thou art more than an empress or a queen . . . blessed above all nobility, wisdom, or saintliness!"

We know that some saints, like Mary, are in heaven because of their holiness. In fact, we call all who are in heaven saints; thus the Good Thief is a saint because Jesus said "Today you will be with me in paradise."

We love the saints because of their love for God, just as we love our pastor or friend because of their love for God. And we are comforted knowing they pray for us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?...Morons."
-Vizzini

Clare Marie | Sun, 11/23/2008

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -Bilbo Baggins [The Lord of the Rings]

question :) YAH MICKI!

wen you get to ... mass? do u kneel before you enter your pew and do you kneel before marry and offer a prayer to her?

these commands plainly say not to make an idol in the form of AnythinG . not even Jesus.
you shouldn't worship or pray to a peice of wood for GOd's spirit nor Marrys is in the wood!

God says in the ten commandments:

Exodus 20: 4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

-
Mary died along time ago!
she was a human being. God did put the holy spirit in her. but hey tru Christiasn have the holy spirit too! Mary doesn't have any more special powers than any one else that we know of. exsept the fact that God had mary have baby Jesus. God had Mary have baby Jesus in the form of man. Mary didn't just go say 'I think i'll have a baby without a man. and I think i'll make that baby God.' it doesn' twork like that.
She didn't have the powers God does and did!
:)
--V

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“Writing on me or anyone else with a sharpie may be permanent today,
But that doesn’t mean it can’t be written over”
-me

Velocity | Tue, 11/25/2008

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The Truth will set you free.

When we kneel before an

When we kneel before an image of Jesus or Mary or the saints, we aren't giving homage to that image, such as that picture or that statue or whatnot. We honor the person who that image represents, NOT the image. If you have a picture of a loved one who has died, or something, don't you sometimes just touch the picture softly or even kiss it, because of your love for that person? In that way, you are not loving or kissing the picture, but you are showing your love for the person that picture represents.

What about the bronze serpent in the Old Testament? And how the people bowed down before it? They were not worshiping the serpent, for God clearly states that this is a grave sin. They were giving homage to God, because the serpent represented His healing presence, and they showed their gratitude and love for God by bowing down before the image. For God told them to look at the bronze serpent when they were bitten by a real one, and they would be healed. It was not the bronze serpant that did this, but God, Whose presence was represented by the serpent.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask. :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?...Morons."
-Vizzini

Clare Marie | Tue, 11/25/2008

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -Bilbo Baggins [The Lord of the Rings]

o

but how can you pray to someone (a person not a God) that is not alive atleast not in this world?
God is alive, and is with us. He lives in heaven and can here our prayers for He is God!
wouldn't it be nicer to have a personal relationship with God, and not joining with a third party?!
do you only pray to mary or do you pray to God too?
Y do you think that praying to mary will make any more difference that say praying to someones dad or mom thats died?

and in the exodus verse if you read it it says
You shall not bow down to them or worship them;
not bowing down to them.
do not bow down to Mary for God says not to.
for she is dead! and it says in GOd's commanments do not BOW DOWN OR WORSHIP. so both you musn't do whether u bow withouth worship or worship without bowing.
thx for not minding the questions.
-V
---------------------------------------------
“Writing on me or anyone else with a sharpie may be permanent today,
But that doesn’t mean it can’t be written over”
-me

Velocity | Tue, 11/25/2008

---------------------------------------------
The Truth will set you free.

Well, first of all, we

Well, first of all, we believe from tradition handed down to us from the early Church Fathers that Mary is in Heaven with God and so also all men and women who have led extremely holy lives.
Consider the Good Thief. Jesus told him, "Today you will be with me in Paradise." Because of the thief's sorrow for his sins and his belief in God, Jesus [Who of course knows all hearts], promised him a reward in Heaven. That's comforting, isn't it? to know that even a thief can enter Heaven. :)
Anyways, also read these texts:

"...the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and a gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones....Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel." [Revelation 5: 8; & 8: 3-4]

"But you have approached Mount Zion, the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, and the assembly and church of the firstborn who have been enrolled in heaven, and God the judge of all, and spirits of righteous ones who have been made perfect, and Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and the sprinkled blood which speaks better than that of Abel" [Heb. 12:22-24].

These and other texts point out that holy men and women who have died are indeed in Heaven, and that it is good that we ask for their prayers, for they will intercede for us and we shall be comforted.

Of course we pray to God!! I couldn't call myself a Christian or a Catholic if I didn't honor and love and pray to God as my One Father and my Loving Creator and Redeemer!! But Mary is special to God, VERY special. After all, the angel Gabriel said to her "Hail! Full of grace," and her cousin Elizabeth called her "Blessed among women." Why? Because Mary was set apart by God to carry the God made man in her womb. Naturally, everyone is special and loved tenderly by God. But Mary actually played a role in our salvation, with her "Be it done to me according to thy word." If she had doubted and said "Well, I don't think so" to the angel, would we have been saved? NO! There would be no hope for us...only death.

So it gives us comfort to also bring our troubles to Mary, besides Jesus. Since Jesus made her our mother at the Crucifixion, we ask her with little children's trust to pray for us, just as we would ask our own mothers or brothers or sisters or friends to pray for us. We know we have friends in heaven. :)

You're welcome; I hate heated discussions. :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?...Morons."
-Vizzini

Clare Marie | Tue, 11/25/2008

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -Bilbo Baggins [The Lord of the Rings]

still.

can u please answer these questions directly?
1.the commandment says not to bow OR worship things made on heaven or on earth please explain how this fits in with kneeling to mary or the pew.

2.yes us humans ask our fmaily and friends to pray for us. BUT. we do not ask the dead. even if they're alive in Heaven, who is it to say that they can even hear us?

Yes Jesus came through Marys body.
God knows everything so He knew that Mary would be alright with it. and even if not He can do anything He could choose another person.
He could say "Become a man" and --zippp--- Jesus is in the form of man. But thats just not how He did it. only God knows why! (i.e. if Mary wasn't choosen by God, God could still make it that He becmoe man through another woman etc...)

If Mary hadn't believed that her son was GOd, and if she hadn't followed she herself wouldn't of entered heaven. for jsut because she bored Jesus doesn't mean she is perfect, doesn't mean she is way greater in heaven than anyone else.
here's a verse.
46While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."[g]
48He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" 49Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. 50For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

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The unperfect person, in the unperfect world, surrounded by unperfect people, with an absolutely perfect God!

Velocity | Tue, 11/25/2008

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The Truth will set you free.

OK, direct answers:1. When

OK, direct answers:

1. When we pray to Mary, we are not only asking her to pray for us, but we are essentially praying to God through Mary.
Also, we honor Mary as the Queen of Heaven and earth because her Son was the Prince of Peace. But we do not worship her.
Oh, and I know this will sprout a bundle of questions, but we believe that Jesus is REALLY PRESENT in the Tabernacle in our church...so when we enter church, we kneel to Him before entering the pew; we don't kneel to the pew.

2. Again, please read the texts I put down in my last comment, from Revelation and Hebrews. These will answer the question, I believe...

Yes, it is true that God COULD have chosen to become man in some other way, but decided to come to Mary's womb. Yet, Mary definitely deserves some credit for answering "yes" to the angel. Could I have answered "YES!" right away? I doubt it.

Concerning the verse...this serves to point out that Mary is even more completely Jesus' mother because she always did God's Will.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?...Morons."
-Vizzini

Clare Marie | Tue, 11/25/2008

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -Bilbo Baggins [The Lord of the Rings]

um...

so are you saying that if some ppl don't live extremely holy lives we will not go to heaven? becuz it is by grace that we saved, and i don't think anybody can be holy enuff to get into heaven.
i mean, i try to be like God, altho i don't always do the greatest job of it, but are you saying that since i'm not extremely holy i'm doomed to hell even tho i've accepted God as my Saviour?
oh, and why is mary queen of heaven? i'm pretty sure we all are equal up there.
and if mary had said no to the angel, i believe God would have found somebody else, altho since He knew from the beginning what He'd do He knew mary would say yes.
anyways...
-Paula

Anonymous | Tue, 11/25/2008

No, not at all. But we

No, not at all. But we can't know for sure how exactly God judges people, because of course we aren't dead or of divine nature; but we know that people who have led extremely holy lives are for sure in heaven.

Catholics believe in Purgatory, you see, which is a place of purification after death. If someone is not quite holy enough to see God face to face in heaven, but is not against God completely [and therefore going to hell], he goes to Purgatory, where he stays until the end of the world or his time of purification is complete. I can't explain much now, but we get this doctrine from Scripture and tradition. Scripture states that "it is a good and holy thought to pray for the dead" [I apologize: I don't remember what book that's from!! :P]; and this wouldn't be necessary if there was only heaven and hell, right? I mean, if somebody went to hell, our prayers couldn't help them, and if somebody went to heaven, they wouldn't need our prayers. And the people of the early Church believed sincerely in praying earnestly for the dead, as we do now.

Mary is the Queen of Heaven because her Son is a Prince; King, rather. And tradition has been handed down to us that Mary was crowned Queen of heaven after she died.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?...Morons."
-Vizzini

Clare Marie | Wed, 11/26/2008

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -Bilbo Baggins [The Lord of the Rings]

.

Do you kneel to Mary's statue? (yes)
Does God say not to bow down to any idol? (Yes)
do you consider kneeling and praying bowing to a statue?
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The unperfect person, in the unperfect world, surrounded by unperfect people, with an absolutely perfect God!

Velocity | Wed, 11/26/2008

---------------------------------------------
The Truth will set you free.

don't...

don't mean to be rude by coming in on a convertatoin, but we DO NOT bow down to statues, they are some what like a symbol that they are near us since we cannot see them. Catholics do not worship Mary, we honor her as are Mother.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Men of Gondor, of Rohan!" Aragorn, LOTR.

Bernadette | Wed, 11/26/2008

OK...[yeah Bernadette!!]

We honor a statue because it symbolizes either Jesus or Mary or a saint.
As humans, it helps us to have images of things we cannot see, because our minds are so weak...
Thus, whenever we pray to Jesus or Mary or a saint, we go in front of their image [if we have it, usually we do] and pray to them: the image helps us in our prayers because we can more easily focus on heaven.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?...Morons."
-Vizzini

Clare Marie | Wed, 11/26/2008

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." -Bilbo Baggins [The Lord of the Rings]

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